(From Lognet 91/3. Used with the permission of The Loglan Institute, Inc.)

Lo Lerci (Letters)

Letters policy: Unless otherwise stated, letters sent to The Institute, JCB, or any editor will be considered as offered for publication. But it would be good if the writer explicitly offers. We reserve the right to edit letters, mostly just to drop material that has to do with ordering books, etc. Sometimes a given correspondent will have several letters in the hopper, so to speak, and we will combine them into one purely for the sake of clarity.  We’d be most grateful if you’d enclose a soft copy of your letter on a disk. We can handle most word-processors and having your letters on disk will save us a lot of typing.—Tisra


Dear Editor,

Before getting to the heart of my letter, which is my reactions to various Lognet business, I feel I should point out some errors I’ve found in Loglan 1. The first, in no particular order, is to be found in Appendix B. The word slano is defined as ‘is -er than...by....’. It seems that a word is missing, perhaps ‘slow’? [Right.—JCB] The second is that in Translation No. 2, the word norsa is used instead of notbi  for ‘others’. Norsa, I believe, is old Loglan. [Right again.—JCB] Finally, the header on page 231 is ‘4 ARGUMENTS’, when it should be ‘4.28 INDIRECT DESIGNATION WITH LAE SAE’, right? (Except that sae is now lue). [Right on all counts.—JCB][We have yet another eagle-eyed reader of L1 here. Please continue to report these findings. When they indeed are errors, we can then correct the master text for the next press run and when they are misunderstandings we can have a dandy time discussing the underlying lack of understanding! —Tisra] 

In Lognet 90/2, the inverse vocative hue is introduced. But even with this word, it seems all eventualities aren’t covered. For instance, I can’t translate “‘I am going’, he said, ‘to the store’, shortly before he went.” Or am I missing something? [Would not the li..lu weak quotation combined with the lie X...X strong quotation suffice, or am I missing something?—Tisra][Mike is right; you can't split an inverse vocative. You can, however, use two of them in the same sentence. But then both must be complete vocatives, e.g., ?Mi fa godzi, hue da, le vedsia, hue da pa cutse paza lepo da godzi. This doesn't strike me as good usage, however. Following Jim's suggestion, one can of course fall back on weak quotation. But in that case the quoted utterance would have to be continuous: Li, Mi fa godzi le vedsia, lu pa nu cutse da paza lepo da godzi.  But I see no occasion for strong quotation here.—JCB]  

In Lognet 91/1, a second type of pause is introduced to permit serial names involving both predicates and regular names. I don’t like this. It seems too complicated, when I think I have a simpler solution. Use ci. For example, ?La Nordi ci Ame[']rik[y]s and La Krist ci Denli.. [This solution has occurred to several logli and is probably superior to the "two types of pauses" solution. Interestingly enough, the hyphen is not necessary before a non-initial name word, only before a non-initial predicate word, in a mixed name. Thus Ame'rikys in La Nordi Ame'rikys can be assumed to be a part of the preceding name by the same convention that allows us to interpret Djonz as part of the serial name La Djan Pol Djonz. If it weren't, the context-sensitive rule governing the use of vocatives after names would oblige us to mark it with Hoi: La Djan Pol, Hoi Djonz. Similarly, to talk to America when talking about the North, one need only mark Ame'rikys with Hoi to keep it from becoming part of the preceding name: La Nordi, Hoi Ame'rikys.—JCB]            

Also, in the same Lognet, Stephen Rice changes the definition of fizdi from ‘is a physical/non-mental object/phenomenon’. Isn’t that the same thing? If you say that something is blue, doesn’t that mean that it is a blue object? [Yes, you're right again. The change suggested is stylistic only, one of those small improvements we'll be making as dictionary editors.—JCB]

Finally, what is the difference between l[o] logla and la Loglan?

Mike Demoulin


This last one goes beyond my meager knowledge, your turn, JCB!—Tisra.  Ok, I'll field this one, Jim. There are no inferrable differences between the designata of these two expressions. The two designations are differently, made, of course: the first, by taking all the scattered pieces of the Loglan language—everything to which the predicate logla might apply—and gluing them together with the lo-operator to designate a single, massive individual; the second,  by giving that same scattered individual a single, unifying name. There is, however, a huge difference between the designata of la Logla and la Loglan. The first is a transitory, familiar name of a particular piece of Loglan, say its definite article, and one that is well-distinguished from comparable bits of  other languages to which we mean also to give familiar Loglan names: say, la Gleca, la Frasa,  and la Ruska. Say the four individuals which we are naming in this familiar, predicative way are the four definite articles of these four languages; and while discussing them we plan to distinguish them only by their "nation ality".  Clearly, la Loglan, la Inglec, la Francei's, and la Ruskias designate four quite different and far more massive beings.—JCB   


 

Dear Dr. Brown:

For the record, Steve Rice first acquainted me with Loglan on Usenet and we are continuing our correspondence about Loglan and other constructed languages. Prior to Steve, I had only heard about the language through the Logical Language Group (LLG). [See my editorial —Tisra] They seem to be giving people the impression that Loglan is an archaic form of Lojban and is not spoken much anymore. I’ve gotten quite tired of LLG’s arrogance and was refreshed to see the section “Loglan as a Linguistic Toy” from Chapter 1 of Loglan 1 through the courtesy of Steve. To me, all languages can be toys and I look forward to playing with your language!

Sincerely,

John B. Ross


Welcome to the original Loglan! Please consider my recommendations and join the Institute, purchase the books and software and learn this language (whose demise has been vastly overstated). I, too, see languages as toys and love to play. Steve can tell you how to reach me on Compuserve, please feel free to do so. —Tisra 


Hoi Tisra:

....[H]ere are some things you [may want to] know about me so you can have some idea as to when I will have something to contribute. I am a Ph.D. student in Planetary Sciences at the University of Arizona. Planetary Science is basically solar system astronomy. I have a M.S. in Physics and a B.S. in Electrical Engineering. I worked for three years at Texas Instruments, Inc. on the electronics for and solid-state physics of infra-red detectors. I am an Amateur (“Ham”) Radio operator, KG7IO, and an avid reader of science fiction. Don’t let this fool you into believing I look like a nerd as I have been active in sports throughout school though I’ve not kept it up fully since then. I have an Atari ST computer (4Mbytes, 68000 based) which can run Macintosh programs. I first heard about Loglan from a mention of the SA article in a book called Electronically Hearing, which dealt with computer speech recognition. I have most of the Loglan materials, but have not yet had the incentive/time to sit down and learn the language, so my Loglan is very rudimentary....

                    Hue Uil [Sirz]


Will wants it known that he can be reached electronically at the following address: wsears@hindmost.lpl.arizona.edu.—Tisra.  Let's have some more of these biographical sketches from our members; they help us visualize one another.—JCB